Two cultures violently opposed
Anyone here who's had an intimate relationship with a Canadian, or probably equally well American or European, should understand the title. Regardless of how compatible the two are, things like the ways of suggesting something, what constitutes an insult and how to handle conflict are so different that things eventually fall apart for no good reason. Essentially, the same words have different meanings. Myself, I've been experiencing such a problem for the past couple months. I'm sure it has nothing to do with personal differences and everything to do with cultural differences.l,] Bh6G4M8`|,? V h
It's hard to see these cultural differences ravage what was otherwise great. I'm not sure that the two of us involved understood, I mean really understood, what the other said to us for a while, nor do we really understand what we said to the other. The Canadian way to deal with this would be to talk about it directly and acknowledge the faults, find some way to fix them and carry on. That doesn't seem at all like the Chinese way. Practically nothing is said directly in Chinese and there seems to be some hang up on talking about conflict. That in itself makes things worse since both are inherently unfriendly in Canadian. I figure it feeds back and forth like that. It's a hard loop to figure out how to break.
One thing for sure is that extra-cultural interaction must necessarily be different from inter-cultural interaction. A lot of lenience is needed. One can't make assumptions about the other is saying despite what it looks like it says. One will have to learn what comportment is proper in the other since it's the interpretation of the other that carries the weight and not one's own. I've asked and I've watched and I've analyzed but I still can't come to what would be proper for me to do and why.
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Assuming what I have unknowingly suggested is like what has been suggested to me -- that the friendship is unwanted, that it's my fault, that I don't even get a chance to apologize -- what is the proper response to this in Chinese terms if nothing at all like that was meant? I have absolutely no clue and really don't want the misunderstanding behind what I face to live on..oh _&a BNp:O
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Anyway, this was all written in a very disorganized way but I think there could be some interesting discussion following from it. There is a huge gap between the two cultures that is not easy to bridge. I'm hoping that with a bit more understanding I can figure this out.
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[[i] 本帖最后由 maebus 于 2007-7-3 09:49 编辑 [/i]] i knew that when i had my international marketing class, but i don't experience that...
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sounds complicate...
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maybe i will get it when i graduate There's a large difference between business relations and personal relations in Canada so what I'm talking about needs a strong friendship to emerge. Since we don't consider business association to be friendship, in the English sense, at all (although the term 'friend' may be used to suggest importance) I can imagine it not coming up in your case. It is hard to assess your situation without knowing any concrete incidents that lead to misunderstandings between you and your friend. If you do intend to engage in an intimate relationship with someone from a totally different culture, brace yourself for all kinds of puzzlements and frustrations.
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[quote]原帖由 [i]maebus[/i] 于 2007-7-3 21:47 发表 [url=http://bbs.taisha.org/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=9040439&ptid=856330][img]http://bbs.taisha.org/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Anyone here who's had an intimate relationship with a Canadian, or probably equally well American or European, should understand the title. Regardless of how compatible the two are, things like t ... [/quote] ::z1 Thank u for sharing~!!!!!
回复 #4 yinbin 的帖子
Yes, it's definitely a garden of bewilderment. I could write the entire sequence of events to have it assessed but that would help only for the one situation and not necessarily in general. I think this is a good way to explain it: if I were to summarize the situation, I don't know what the key points are. I know what my key points would be but I don't know what the set on the other side would be. Without knowing how to find out what those other key points are I would be at a loss on how to make amends. So, I guess my question is more along the lines of how does one go about saying that one wants to make amends but doesn't know what went wrong or how to handle such a conflict. The Canadian way obviously doesn't work and I'm not clear on the philosophy behind the Chinese way. The Canadian way to deal with this would be to talk about it directly and acknowledge the faults, find some way to fix them and carry on.-------This is how I sort out things with my friends. 7r AR {.z
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Is there right or wrong between you guys? Or just misundertanding? Or something else?
I'm clueless..
回复 #7 辰雨清风 的帖子
In this particular incident, when I went to acknowledge the faults I basically said I've obviously done something wrong but have no idea what it was and would like to know what it was, but I didn't get an answer. Looking it over again and again, it's clear that it's a long string of misunderstandings and misinterpretations; I've since figured out a fair portion of it (and let me say my ability to read and interpret Chinese has gone up significantly). To make matters harder, love was involved on both sides. Essentially, some things were misconstrued on both sides as callous, we got hurt, upset and angry, and didn't understand why this was happening, all over something that would have gone smoothly had it been presented differently. I'm still in love, but now I'm being rejected. Of course, there are still plenty of details I could fill in but that's the gist of it. It's been quite hard on me I must say. I think if people focus more of ecnomics, and humanity, misinterpretation would be less. [size=3][quote]原帖由 [i]maebus[/i] 于 2007-7-3 06:47 AM 发表 [/size][url=http://bbs.taisha.org/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=9040439&ptid=856330][size=3][img]http://bbs.taisha.org/images/common/back.gif[/img][/size][/url][size=3]That doesn't seem at all like the Chinese way. Practically nothing is said directly in Chinese and there seems to be some hang up on talking about conflict. [/quote][/size]
[size=3]Right. That's the way it is. May I suggest that you let it go? I mean, if the conflict you had is forgettable, why not just leave it to oblivion?[/size]
回复 #10 Pharm.D 的帖子
Essentially in my culture to not acknowledge it when told it's a problem is to assert oneself over the other which renders the conflict unfinished and unforgettable. In my particular case the existence of the conflict itself has caused behaviour worthy of ending a friendship over. To drop it would be to say we cannot be friends. That's a bit harsh given that all this stems from miscommunication.tg4H0XQ,JT
It's forgettable in the sense that once everything has been explained and amended it will no longer have to be thought about and would fade away on its own. Acting as if something is unknown is not forgetting and only makes it more difficult to forget... [size=3][color=black][quote][/color][color=black][font=SimSun]原帖由[/font][/color][i][color=black]maebus[/color][/i][color=black][font=SimSun]于[/font][/color][color=black] 2007-7-17 09:04 PM [/color][color=black][font=SimSun]发表[/font][/color]
[/size][size=3][color=black]In my particular case the existence of the conflict itself has caused behavior worthy of ending a friendship over.[/quote][/color][size=9pt][/size][/size]
[size=3][color=black]Sorry to hear that. Seems the conflict is far more serious than a spat between friends/lovers.[/color][size=9pt][/size][/size]:] @5ox6M2W3O
[size=3][color=black]But as you mentioned, that the conflict reveals a long string of misunderstandings and misinterpretations, I think it is time for an openhearted talk. Chinese culture might be implicit, but honesty and straightforwardness are always welcomed.[/color][/size] I think the difference make the world colourfull,we(not only Chinese but also foreigners) should try to comprehend and respect other country`s culture,so we can get mutual understand
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one kind of solution is what U.S. want do--let the world become one sound
I dislike it
回复 #12 Pharm.D 的帖子
Yeah, it has definitely become more serious than it should have.I've tried right from the start to have such a talk but to no avail. I don't know why exactly that was refused but it only made things harder on me (as that suggests severance of a friendship). Perhaps I used a wording that was too coarse or didn't understand the situation well enough at the time to guide it in the right direction. The two of use were quite unfamiliar with subtlety in the other's culture so it quickly became a disaster.
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Maybe I don't know the proper way to open such a talk. My honesty and straightforwardness is given but I don't see that in response. Actually, what was done to me is one of the most insulting things I can imagine but I understand that the presumptions behind my cultural reaction are false. Reason and emotion are two different things; reason states I should forgive it but emotion states I deserve an apology, which primarily consists of such an open chat. I'm sure I owe a big apology too but I can't get close enough to start. Frankly, the (lack of) response I get so unfriendly that emotion overtakes reason. I'm getting close to accepting that there is no longer any friendship to be had, at least on the other side.6P8eN#G V4t*R7Z
(By the way, changing the spelling of `behaviour' is a nice touch. I almost missed it. I've always found the use of -our a bit ridiculous but it's standard Canadian English and that's what I stick to.) [size=3][quote]原帖由 [i]maebus[/i] 于 2007-7-17 11:14 PM 发表 [/size][url=http://bbs.taisha.org/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=9149011&ptid=856330][size=3][img]http://bbs.taisha.org/images/common/back.gif[/img][/size][/url]
[size=3]Actually, [b]what was done to me is one of the most insulting things I can imagine[/b] but I understand that the presumptions behind my cultural reaction are false.[/size]
[size=3][/quote],Hs k,PN8|6F
Geez, what was it?[/size] Buddy, when u have been discriminated against your racial background, u will understand where does the feeling of rage come from. It's almost nothing wrong with the culture ,just human to human. A(r!d Z&v
few people can truly understand that " No man was to be eulogized for what he did; or censured for what he did or did not do; all of us are the children of conditions, of circumstances, of environment, of education, of acquired habits and of heredity molding men as they are and will forever be."!^ Q f:f-S5f
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GOD bless America ~~~ ::16 I'm of an ethnic minority in Canada and while discrimination hasn't been prevalent during my lifetime I certainly have heard sordid stories of it. I'm not one to discriminate or say one culture is better than another. I was just saying that the problem here wasn't person to person, since we shared many of the same beliefs and ideas, but rather culture to culture. The ways in which one presents oneself, describes one's ideas and interprets the world are all derived from one's culture. I was saying that I know my own culture and how to resolve such a conflict as my culture would, but that method seemed to make things worse. I was asking how to act as in the other culture so that I could restore the friendship and clear up any misunderstandings. You see, words are interpreted very differently between our two cultures.
回复 #15 Pharm.D 的帖子
It was basically to build up my trust and reliance only to turn around and denounce me without citing a proper reason. As I've said, different cultures state things differently and that was not what was intended but that is what was done from the perspective of my culture.,O5?8~-uFz
Anyway, this particular thing is all over with now. Thanks for the help. I hope I can prevent something like this before it happens next time.
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